Is my electrician justified in refusing to install a light fixture that is not UL listed, even though all parts are individually listed?
Asked by Xavier Tejeda 
6 months ago
Last Updated: June 14, 2024
So I got this light fixture from Etsy for our kitchen island, and all the parts are UL listed, but the whole fixture isn’t. Our electrician won’t install it because he’s worried it might not pass inspection and be a liability. I told the seller, but they’re saying it doesn’t need UL certification according to national code and won’t take it back. What do you think? Is my electrician being cautious or overreacting?
Make sure to reach out to your local building inspector.
Many products on Amazon lack UL, ETL, and CTL certification, yet people continue to use them daily. The decision to use such products may depend on your relationship with contractors and local authorities. In my experience, inspectors have requested spec sheets for hospital fixtures but not for residential projects.
Just be practical, if he is refusing to install the fixture or anything else, there must be a valid reason
It’s unlikely that an inspector will verify if it’s listed
James ifford forget the inspector. If it falls apart while above someone or shocks someone or catches fire, then it will be important.
Just go ahead and set it up.
Chances are it’s in compliance.
According to Article 410.6, all luminaires, lamp holders, and retrofit kits must be listed. If the fixture isn’t listed, your electrician shouldn’t install it.
So, does this mean it’s mandatory by law in areas that have accepted the code?
I believe that’s exactly what I mentioned.
Will it be included? Meaning listed
Are you inquiring about the definition of the term provided?
Astute Acquisitions
Astute Acquisitions
Hower listed for the purpose it is being used for. Does it have to be “UL listed”? That’s open to interpretation and should be decided by the local AHJ. The majority of my work is in schools, with all our equipment specified by the architect, approved by the engineer, and reviewed and accepted based on cut sheets submitted by us. I’m contractually obligated to service or replace these lights we provided, for 1-4 years depending on the project’s specifications.
When I work on a service call or home remodel, homeowners often choose lights from Amazon and Etsy. I only offer recessed cans/trims, exhaust fans, and devices. I don’t provide or buy the light fixtures myself. I test and install them, informing the homeowner that the power supplied to the fixture is correct, and I can’t guarantee how the fixture will perform in the future.
But if it’s not listed for any purpose, it’s pretty pointless to argue over which purpose it was meant for
I’m not trying to be rude but you haven’t told me anything new. The bottom line is, if you install a light fixture that the homeowner purchased and it’s not listed, you’re taking on the liability for it.
Astute Acquisitions is certified by an approved organization
Isn’t it low voltage? Just a strip light inside, right? If I really wanted to avoid installing it, I’d find a way to do it legally, especially if it’s just a strip light inside. I could use my own driver and mount it in an approved location.
If the fixture isn’t included in the list, you can’t legally hang it as per the national electrical code.
Hower I wouldn’t consider it a fixture if it’s just an LED strip. I use it for under cabinet lighting, sticking it onto the cabinet. Does that mean the cabinet is now a fixture because I attached the light to it? No, the cabinet is still just a cabinet with an LED light attached. It’s basically a decorative piece of wood with a low voltage strip attached. If you remove the self-contained driver installed by the Etsy person and use a 12v transformer/switch combo to convert the switch leg to low voltage, I don’t see the difference from under cabinet lighting.
Your interpretation doesn’t change the fact that the national electrical code requires all luminaries to be listed.
There’s a lot of nonsense on this site. I’ve been a retired electrical contractor for 45 years and the only reason I’m still on here is for the entertainment. You all start quoting code for a simple low voltage lighting fixture. You all need to take things a bit more seriously and get back to your electrical work, just saying.
Clearly you haven’t satisfied a customer as an electrician before. If my customer spent $750 on a fixture, I would find a way to install it, while still following the law.
Agree. If you’re going to make a big deal about it, have the homeowner sign a hold harmless document and put up the light. Or have them contact their AHJ or take care of it yourself if you’re really concerned. Seems like more effort is being put into avoiding work than actually doing the work in the first place. LOL I’ve been an electrician for 26 years and a contractor for 11, and I would never refuse to hang a customer’s light.
The electrician is within his rights because it’s his business. If he chooses not to install it, he doesn’t have to. If you want installation, reach out to a different electrician.
In every part of the country, a version of the NEC is used, however, the edition and local rules may vary. When installing equipment, it must be considered “approved”. This means that if it hasn’t been tested by an NRTL (such as UL), it needs approval from the AHJ. Basically, the electrician should seek approval from the inspector.
Your electrician is correct because even though each item has a UL listing, the combination of them all together does not. You could try contacting the electrical inspector to see if they would allow it.
So what you’re saying is if an inspector approves it, then it’s correct? When many inspectors are clueless?
Having said that.
Every electrical component may be UL listed individually, but they can’t be UL listed for use together in a building.
Does that mean the whole installation is invalid?
I’ll hold off.
Quiet saturday night?
Sure thing
Just find a handyman. Make sure all the wiring is up to standard. It’s just the mounting.
Is it really UL listed? If it’s not, I would definitely return it considering the price. I would want a light fixture with a UL/NRTL label for that amount of money.
You can easily install it yourself
This seems to be the correct course of action. The electrician is justified in refusing
There’s a small chance that homeowner insurance could still be voided in case of a fire. While unlikely, if the worst-case scenario occurs, the homeowner might not have coverage
I’ve noticed that most houses are labeled as “fire hazards.” In my opinion, starting an electrical fire is unlikely unless you do something careless like connecting low-quality extension cords that can’t handle the power needs of devices like a space heater. LED lights and cheap Chinese parts might overheat, but usually only if they’re not directly plugged into an outlet. For $750, the risk seems minimal. Personally, I would have installed the light. Perhaps the electrician was just playing it safe because he works for a company or simply didn’t want to deal with it.
Just ask a different electrician to handle the installation. Even if the entire ‘luminaire’ isn’t listed, it’s not unsafe for someone to create a custom light fixture using UL listed parts.
If the fixture is not listed as an assembly, it’s not allowed to be installed.
Hower So, this is more about the technical ‘legality’ than safety or common sense. Would this electrician also avoid the standard industry practice of converting CFL can lights to LED by bypassing the ballast? Or modifying fluorescent strip fixtures in the field, which technically voids the UL listing?
Hey, make sure you go through your code book. It’s specifically covered there. Even if it seems safe, a violation is a violation, and it can lead to a lot of liability for those responsible if the code isn’t followed exactly.
Hower hey do you think there’s any way someone could create something dangerous with parts that are safe on their own?
1. NEC says fixtures must be certified.
2. UL listing covers the parts fixtures were tested with. Lamps are listed only for the highest wattage they can handle, but specific ballasts and transformers are also listed. Even the manufacturer can’t change a part without UL approval.
3. If a customer alters a UL approved fixture, it loses its approval.
Do retrofit kits need to be listed too?
Just to clarify, the products don’t need to be UL listed. They just need to be listed by an approved company, and there are multiple options.
Is talking about “technical legality”? I’m not sure what that means, do you have any idea?
I just wanted to clarify, according to the UL website, using a retrofit kit on a listed fixture doesn’t cancel out the fixture’s listing.
Do you really think a guy who designs custom lamps shouldn’t run a business?
You know what’s wild? Selling custom light fixtures that aren’t listed isn’t actually against the law. But it is illegal for an electrician to install them. I’ve worked on some fancy Residential projects in my neighborhood, and there’s this one custom fixture maker who did the responsible thing by getting their products listed.
This red tape situation is just so typical of America, right? The rest of the world would definitely find this amusing.
I can’t say for sure what all the rules are, but I do know an electrician in the UK who does really good work. They have FCI protection for the whole home, which is important. I know it can be a hassle, but living in the northern Rocky Mountain region, I’ve seen some pretty sketchy antler light fixtures.
If you understood what I said as well as you expressed your feelings about it, you would have realized that is not what I meant.
Does know about this? Haha
: It’s getting worse, I have no idea what you’re referring to.
Looked around a bit while we were talking and figured out that everything I said is totally accurate.
There might be a possibility. You definitely seem like a newbie, too. Lol
Hey Tim, you missed the t.
The inspector won’t check out the fixture – go ahead and install it.
You’re completely mistaken. “Field modification” is actually compliant with code regulations. Just remember, the key word is “listed.”
I’m not taking sides on this since I’m not an electrician, but I’m wondering if replacing a cord end voids the UL listing. We don’t know exactly how it was done, so if they took a UL approved assembly, removed the cord end, inserted it into a custom holder, and replaced the cord end without any requirements for distances to combustibles, would it still be UL listed? Just curious, not trying to argue.
I agree with his statement 👆👆👆👆
That doesn’t make sense
Please send it over
Contact the Esty seller and request a list of components used in the construction along with their corresponding UL listing. Keep this paperwork for the inspector or, before the inspection, visit the relevant codes enforcement department and provide them with copies of the materials used in the fixture in question. If all components are listed, they may decide to conduct a specialized inspection of the fixture or they may choose to overlook that aspect. The chances are high that they will approve it. Once the fixture is approved, liability concerns should no longer be an issue. At the lighting company where I work, we regularly do this for our local electricians. Anything that benefits our electricians also benefits our business.
Is it listed in any way? It doesn’t necessarily have to be UL listed. Alternatively, have the electrician hang the light after inspection and cover the fixture box with a blank cover. If he refuses, call another electrician without mentioning it and he will likely install it. I have never checked a light fixture for listing, let alone for UL listing.
For only $20, start with a cheap pendant light. Once the inspection is complete, switch it out with the fixture you originally wanted.
Just hold off until everything is finished before putting up the light.
I don’t bother checking for a listing. If the customer provides it and it doesn’t look sketchy, I’ll hang it. The light above my kitchen island was even made from leftover parts of other fixtures. Plus, those arc fault breakers should keep it safe, right?
In Canada, you need a fixture approved by ESA/CSA…the individual components can be approved but the entire fixture needs certification
Is there a listing available?
The electrician is spot on.
If an electrician refuses to hang it, pay attention
TEMU is notorious for selling low-quality products
Even if the electrician didn’t install it.
Yeah
Erase it. Let him hang it up later.
Forget about your distributor. The electrician has the authority to refuse any installation for insurance and permit reasons. Sounds like a hassle. What does the internet think about ‘this’?
Just because each item is listed individually doesn’t necessarily mean they are all safe to use together. For example, what if the bulbs draw too much power for the fixture wiring to handle?
Take house fans for instance. They indicate the maximum wattage allowed. Exceeding that limit could potentially cause the wiring to burn up.
410.6 is mandatory, believe it or not!
The box he put up is likely too flimsy for the weight.
The Electrician is correct. If that fixture causes a fire, your insurance won’t cover the damages. Always purchase your products from the Electrician who is doing the installation so they can warranty those items. This ensures that you only need to make one phone call if any issues arise.
Yep, he’s right from a technical standpoint. It needs to be a UL Assembly. But honestly, inspectors probably won’t even notice.
The AHJ has the authority to approve the installation of the fixture. Reach out to them and provide all the documentation you have regarding the fixture.
That’s why it’s important to purchase from a reputable Lighting store 😉
Most electricians won’t risk installing something that could potentially cause a fire in your home. It’s better to be safe than sorry !
Maybe they’re aware that the inspector will verify and they don’t want the responsibility
Just set it up yourself, super easy.
Compliant and finished.
Yeah, it might not be legal everywhere, but hey, if it’s using LEDs and such low voltage, how much harm can it really do?
In most states, homeowners are allowed to do things that electricians cannot.
If the installer is concerned about liability, they can include a hold harmless clause in the agreement. This clause would waive any warranty or fault in case of damage or fire. While it is unlikely to cause future issues, addressing the UL listing concern can help ease any worries and eliminate potential liabilities.
If I were an electrician, I wouldn’t proceed with the installation
If the junk you put in your house causes a fire, your insurance won’t cover it. The cost of household items may seem high, but it’s all part of the safety process.
Hang it up and move on
Wait until after the inspection to blank it, then hang it up yourself.
You’re the one providing the fixture, right?
No content
Purchasing from international companies online can be a good deal… until it’s not.
Buyer beware and rely on your LOCAL tradesperson… or do it yourself.
Consider drafting a document to take responsibility if it causes a fire 🔥
As a eneral Contractor, I support your electrician’s decision. Many fixtures are manufactured without a UL listing, whether at home or in a small business, and I wouldn’t use them on my projects either. Of course, if you prefer, you can buy a $20 fixture from a big box store and install it yourself. But professionals who have licenses and careers at stake should support his choice.
Consider getting the custom light fixture UL listed. My uncle, who makes custom lights, uses a machine to test the fixture and affix a sticker if it meets the requirements. The machine undergoes yearly calibration to ensure accuracy.
Honestly, it’s not a major issue
It’s definitely not inexpensive, as we deal with automation equipment which requires a significant investment to have a professional come and affix a label.
You really paid $750 for that piece of junk? But hey, the electrician is right.
UL is one of many companies that can list electrical components for code compliance. It seems like no one has invested in testing your fixture to get it listed.
Every day custom light fixtures are being sold and installed by electricians all over the place haha. If he’s not confident in just checking it for issues and really thinks an inspector will look for the UL listing, then it’s time to find a new electrician.
You should hang it yourself.
Do the installation on your own.