Have you considered creating new circuits in your kitchen to avoid power issues with multiple appliances running on the same circuit?
Hey there! So, I’m dealing with an electrical problem and could really use some advice. Basically, my plugs aren’t getting any power. I checked them and there’s voltage, but they’re still not working. They stopped working while I was making coffee yesterday morning. I looked at the panel and everything seems fine there – no loose wiring or anything.
I had an electrician come out, but even they couldn’t figure out what’s going on. Thinking of getting a second opinion, but the first guy seemed pretty legit. He was here for 2 hours and still couldn’t find the issue. He mentioned something about “back feeding” to try and fix it, but I’m not too keen on him opening up the wall just yet.
Just to give you some background, we upgraded the electrical in our 1967 home last year. We got a new 200 amp panel, installed canned lights, replaced plugs, GFCIs, the whole shebang. The only thing we didn’t do was create new circuits. Right now, the kitchen is on the same circuit as the fridge, microwave, and 10 other plugs. We only have one GFCI connected and it’s outside, and that’s not getting any power
How did you confirm there is voltage at the outlet?
If the power is off but you still detect voltage, it might be ghost voltage. Instead of a microwave, try connecting a very low power device like an LED light. If it doesn’t turn on, then you’re dealing with ghost voltage, not actual current.
There’s a ton of information to go through, but make sure to read the comments below this post for a similar issue I encountered during my recent kitchen remodel.
https://www..com/share/p/QdiaqUGPteCeNAaN/?mibextid=oFDknk
Having a fridge, microwave, and 10 outlets all on one circuit? That could be the problem. 😉
Just for fun, bypass the gfci and see if that makes a difference.
My gut feeling is that it could be the gfci causing the problem. Gfcis can be unpredictable sometimes. It could be due to its age, location, or just being mischievous. You might want to check if the feed wire at the gfci is slightly disconnected. Also, if some breakers are new and others aren’t, the old breaker might have tripped without it being obvious. It’s important to have heavy appliances on their own circuits. An uncommon issue could be the outlets being wired in a “light fixture first” setup. In that case, if the black wires are connected incorrectly, the outlets could end up being switched unintentionally.
Have you attempted plugging in a lamp one by one into all 10 outlets? Maybe try removing the gfci temporarily to rule that out as a possible issue.
I’m pretty sure the problem lies in an open circuit at the first outlet in line or there’s a junction in the attic.
Are the outlets equipped with GFCI?
Are you using an actual multimeter to measure voltage or just relying on a no-touch tester? It seems like there might be an open neutral causing the issue, as you need a return path for the current to flow.
Exactly what I was going to mention. I’m currently facing a similar issue in my rental property but haven’t located the open neutral yet. When your outlet tester indicates “hot and ground reversed”, it means there’s probably an open neutral somewhere upstream.
Do you happen to live in a rental unit that shares a circuit with another apartment?
I’m thinking about liability if you are renting out a house – an electrician should probably be called in.
Have you checked the working outlets for any faults?
I once encountered a miswired toggle at a replaced outlet which affected other outlets in the series. It was quite confusing as the dead outlets didn’t seem to be connected to any of the breakers.
Wait, you have 10 outlets on one circuit along with the fridge and microwave??? That’s a lot. The microwave should have its own dedicated circuit and having 10 outlets is definitely too many. On top of that, there might be a loose wire nut in one of the boxes.
This ⬆️
Back in ’67, the refrigerator should have had its own breaker.
These days, when we remodel a kitchen, we prioritize the following order for breakers:
1: fridge
2: microwave
3: dishwasher
4: 20 amps for the counter
5: 20 amps for the island
Modern toasters and microwaves consume about 1500 watts each, so it’s good to consider that… along with a mixer and coffee machine as essential kitchen appliances.
Simply changing the panel without rewiring does not make a significant difference.
PS: On a 15 amps breaker, you can have up to 10 outlets (maximum as per code), but not in the kitchen. Keep in mind that the code requirements may differ by region – we typically adhere to 8 outlets with an 80% load rule.
It seems like there may be a loose connection somewhere along the hot or neutral wires. With the circuit having too many outlets already, it might be a good idea to run a new cable from the breaker panel and supply power to half of the circuit by disconnecting a cable that connects two outlets in the middle and capping it. However, this will only address half of the outlets. You still need to locate the loose connection between the breaker and the first outlet experiencing issues under heavy loads. If the issue doesn’t occur at the first outlet, then the loose connection is likely further down the wire. Try replacing the GFCI first and adding one where the new feed will connect.
Avoid backfeeding. Is the breaker tripping and allowing an immediate reset?
It’s not unusual for an old outlet connection at the screw to get corroded, leading to overheating and arcing that can further corrode and heat up until it burns out.
One big clue is that there was significant renovation done a year ago. During the installation of outlets, the wires may have loosened when pushing the receptacle into the box. This loosening could have led to arcing, burning, or opening up the connection in the series.
The first outlet you should check is the one that works down from the initial failed outlet closest to the breaker. You might be able to spot the issue with a flashlight, but the outlet needs to be pulled out for a closer inspection. As others have mentioned, pay attention to the white wire.
If your outlets were stabbed in the back, they might have come loose and be causing the issue.
Let’s start at the panel. Check if there’s power at the breaker using a VOM. Then move to the first receptacle in the line away from the panel. Check for power on both sides of the receptacle, unless there are pigtails. If there are pigtails, remove the wire nuts and check for power there too (with pigtails, the receptacle will only have wires on one side). Just keep tracing the circuit until you locate the issue.
Not gonna lie, this may not be entirely up to code, but I was losing power in a section of my house and was able to fix it by taking out a GFCI in the chain… You mentioned upgrading with a GFCI and referred to an outlet outside, is the outlet in the kitchen a GFCI? How about the breaker? If they are, remove and replace them with regular outlets because having multiple GFCIs can mess things up.
How is it possible to have voltage but no power? Have you verified the voltage with a meter? Is the voltage present across the neutral, not just the ground? You mentioned having a GFI outside, are you certain it’s on that circuit.
Reset all GFI outlets – one going to two or three. All must be reset. Additionally, new circuits are needed to take the load off.
Somewhere there is a loose neutral.
It’s not recommended to remove the GFCIs, but they might need to be replaced due to age or damage from usage. Your description suggests there may be an open neutral in the circuit, as others have mentioned. The last time I dealt with an open neutral issue, it took three days of searching to find it in a ceiling light splice. If you’re having trouble with this work, it might be worth considering a different electrician.
If your electrician is having trouble figuring it out, it might be time to look for a new one. There are too many things on the circuit, which is why your coffee pot turns off. Running a new circuit to the fridge plug could help reduce the load. When you mention having ‘power,’ are you using a beeper instead of a voltmeter? It sounds like there might be a lost neutral along the circuit. By ‘backfeeding,’ he meant adding a neutral from a good circuit to identify the affected plugs and locate the ‘break’ in the circuit.
Thanks everyone! You won’t believe it, I had to call a second guy (Hunt’s Electric) and he found the issue within the first 10 minutes. Turns out one of the outlet’s wire caps had broken. It cost me $200 to fix (including the service fee). Can’t believe the first guy didn’t even check the outlet closest to the panel where the problem was found, and was trying to charge me $2k to open up my wall.
It’s usually the first outlet or a loose wire at the breaker.
Remember to change the lightbulb before messing with the wiring – it’s Electrician 101! Looks like your first guy skipped that class haha. I do have some advice for you, though. If you have an outdoor outlet connected to the same circuit as your fridge, and it trips, get rid of it to avoid any surprises. If it randomly trips when you’re away, you could come back to a mess. That’s just Murphy’s law.
Thank you!
Wow, really?
Did we also correctly assume that the exposed wire was the neutral?
And that the “wire cap” was found on one of the outlets that had been redone?
That’s the way it is…
William is insisting on black only!
We were given the clue “I sense some voltage.” Our first thought was that it came from a outlet tester or a hot ground wire.
William suggests that you probably lost the neutral connection if you’re getting voltage to the ground.
It might be a good idea to consider running a separate circuit to your refrigerator. In new construction homes, kitchens usually have at least 2 circuits for outlets, a 3rd one for the refrigerator, and a 4th for the microwave. This setup would prevent the breakers from tripping, especially when using appliances like a coffee machine. You should never have to worry about it tripping.
Always remember to check for the GFCI in the bathroom or garage nearby. I’ve been in a similar situation before where I was going around in circles, only to realize that the garage had one hidden behind a shelf that powered the entire circuit.
Took the words right out of my mouth. Be sure to look into the GFCI