Can we safely remove the door header and keep only the two 2x4s with the marked opening above the door?
Asked by Victor Sørensen 
8 months ago
Last Updated: May 7, 2024
Hey, I’m pretty sure that the wall above the door supports the weight of the structure, but I was wondering if it’s possible to take out the header and just leave the two 2×4’s with an opening instead. I’ve circled the boards I’m talking about in both pictures. Any thoughts on this would be great.
The header is supporting the weight that would have been distributed by the missing studs if there were no door.
Essentially, no. Unless we figure out another method to distribute the weight. We might have to consult with an engineer.
In short, absolutely not.
No. If it is indeed a load-bearing wall, you could consider consulting a structural engineer to develop a plan for a recessed beam (especially if there’s an attic above) or another method to evenly distribute the load.
How can you tell if it’s load-bearing? My suggestion is that whenever you suspect a wall is load-bearing, you should consult with an architect or engineer for advice. Maybe instead of using a larger board, you could consider using a 2×6 or something smaller.
If a 2×12 header is put in, it’s definitely load-bearing. When it comes to cost, there’s no point in using a double 2×12 header instead of just framing it down to door height with 2x4s.
Haha you can’t expect an engineer to give you advice for free…they’ll most likely say no, don’t remove it, and then hit you with a bill for 800.
Using a 2×12 might be excessive. Based on my experience, one 2×4 might not be enough to support that beam. To be sure, it’s important to determine the direction of the beams above or below.
It’s wiser to invest $800 now than deal with costly property damage that insurance may not cover. Asking a community for advice might not provide the solution.
100% if you’re not sure, it’s best to hire someone who is…I have expertise in carpentry and get paid for it….we can’t speculate without knowing what’s above us, so it’s hard to have an informed opinion
Hey Paul, I’m curious how many houses you’ve worked on or built.
I’ve had two houses and have done a bunch of DIY projects on both. I’m no expert, just a weekend warrior. I can usually tell when I need to call in the pros.
Some DIY projects can actually be risky – I’ve heard that messing with the stairs could lead to your house getting condemned. It’s best to follow local codes to avoid potential hazards.
No
The purpose of that piece of wood is to support bringing down the wall instead of letting it extend all the way to the ceiling. So just go ahead and remove it
Is completely wrong. That’s why we have codes in place – to prevent people from removing framing in their homes.
That appears to be two 2 by 12s acting as a lintel. Is that what we’re looking at here? It seems a bit excessive for a single door opening. Do the stairs descend from this point, indicating that it’s at the second floor level with just an attic and roof above it? Your house doesn’t seem that old based on the lumber used. Is the roof structure made of trusses or conventionally framed? Is this wall truly load-bearing? Comparing a picture of your attic and the direction of the ceiling joists to this wall would provide more insight. These are the kind of details an engineer would want to know to offer advice. While I might be able to assist, a thorough evaluation based on all the information you’ve shared is necessary to determine the best course of action.
I wouldn’t risk it. If it wasn’t necessary for support, it would have been framed differently, like a typical closet with L-shaped 2x’s. The trusses were likely designed to rest on that. It’s possible the builder just went the extra mile. But it’s best to check the attic, if you can, or the floor above for more clues.
It’s unlikely that the structure is carrying a significant load. If it were, those 2x12s would have more than one jack stud supporting them. That being said, without more information, I can’t provide a complete opinion.
Typically, when there is a header present, it is considered a load-bearing element. In a standard 2×4 wall frame, it is common to use double 2×12 headers with single cripple studs for openings that are 36 inches or smaller. This setup is used for all single doors and windows.
In response to the questions asked, the answer is no.
I completely agree with your statement.
Swapping out two 2X12 for two 2X4 could compromise the integrity of your house. You might be able to embed the support into the ceiling so it only sticks out 4 inches (or less), but you’ll need an engineer to come up with a solution that keeps the house safe.
The correct answer is that there isn’t enough information provided. The 2×4’s you already cut could potentially be load-bearing. We really need to know what’s above it in the attic to answer anything.
I’m in agreement that he didn’t provide sufficient information. We are unaware of the direction in which the ceiling rafters are running or if there’s a second floor.
There’s a hallway without a beam across it. My best guess is that it’s not a bearing wall, but I’d need to check the attic or if there’s a second floor to be sure.
The 2×4’s that have already been cut are confirmed to not be load-bearing. No second floor, just a basement.
Hey, just wondering which way the trusses run in the attic and what type they are. Also, is there a wall or some kind of support directly below in the same spot? It’s strange to see a non-load bearing door framed with 2×12’s, especially with the nail pattern going through the stud into the 2×12’s. This could have been done by a board framer, but it’s worth looking into.
If there’s a header like , it’s there for a reason. You don’t need any more info. The answer is still No.
That thing is huge, I’d steer clear. Seems like it serves a purpose.
I’m not a professional, so I’ll rephrase this to sound like my personal opinion. In my experience with my house, we had trusses and removed a wall with a similar-looking header. Before doing anything, I would recommend checking what’s above that area in the attic space. I should mention that when we remodeled our kitchen, we took out a wall with a doorway and header just like this. Since our house had trusses and was not load-bearing, we removed it without any issues. However, if you know for sure that your house doesn’t have trusses and the wall is load-bearing, I wouldn’t advise messing with it. My opinion is solely based on my personal experience and observations.
Hey Brittany, those 2 – 2x4s above the header are just a top plate and double plate. They’re only necessary if the header is carrying a load. Without more information, it’s hard to determine what’s needed.
Hey, can a load bearing beam be supported by a single 2×6? I always thought they needed double stud packs.
It seems like there’s only a header resting on a single jack stud. King studs aren’t doubled. If it were load bearing, there would be a stud pack in the corner with 3 or more studs.
Do you think that the stacked 2x4s next to the header and outside the doorframe wouldn’t be sufficient to support the weight? It really depends on what’s above
You know, I do agree that they should consider taking down more drywall to check if the header extends all the way down or if it stops at the door frame
Hey, maybe it’s time to stop talking…that has got to be one of the most uneducated things said online
Umm.. maybe skip giving advice on structural framing if the basics are unclear to you
I mean, that might not be the best advice to offer. You might want to brush up on framing knowledge. Let’s avoid steering people in the wrong direction.. it could lead to some serious consequences
Hey, maybe reconsider this approach.. it’s not really making sense
When I remodeled my kitchen, I also removed an entire wall with a door frame that had a similar-sized header. Our house had trusses, and nothing adverse happened. That’s why I’m seeking more information about what’s above, like others who are also questioning if their house has trusses or not. Sometimes it’s just for looks 🙄.
If you don’t read much on the internet, you’d know that we had a similar doorway situation where we removed the entire wall. Our house was built with trusses and we didn’t encounter any issues. I’m just curious about the structural impact of taking out this 2-foot header. Would the house collapse? Will the ceiling cave in that area? Or would the overall structure be fine if this one header is removed to create a wider doorway similar to a hallway?
I’ve been a licensed contractor in California since 1984. The main point of this post is that without actually looking up in the attic, we can’t be 100% certain about what’s happening above. It’s hard to give solid advice or make a decision without all the facts.
If the house has a truss system, then it’s possible that the wall isn’t load-bearing. However, we can’t say for sure without physically checking the attic.
It’s also possible that the header was installed as a standard practice by the framers. But as a contractor, if I saw such a large header over a 3′ opening, I would definitely proceed with caution before removing the wall.
I agree. It’s important for them to understand what’s above them, whether it’s a truss system or a load bearing wall.
I appreciate you sharing your thoughts in a mature and professional manner, unlike the majority of rude people in this DIY group.
There’s no need to be rude. We all have our own opinions and can learn from each other.
Hey , the fact that you believe it’s 2 feet is exactly why giving advice might not be a good idea.
It’s okay not to know, just be honest about it instead of pretending.
Hey , you really brighten up the room, don’t you? Oh, and FYI, I’m not a pro because we’re all DIYers here. I just shared my thoughts based on what I’ve been through. We had a similar header above a wall we took down in my house with trusses, and it wasn’t load-bearing.
Hey Rob, just a friendly reminder that professionals can offer constructive feedback without being rude. It seems like this is something you could work on.
I just wanted to mention that even if your house has trusses, it doesn’t necessarily mean that an interior wall isn’t load-bearing.
Brittany, things have changed a bit. You noticed one header was removed and thought you knew why. Truth is, neither of us has all the information, so we can’t be sure.
Take a look to determine the direction in which your trusses are installed and check if any of them are supported by other structures.
I’m not sure if the header above the door is part of a laminated beam that extends through your hallway. It would be wise to consult with a professional before making any further changes. With the current details, it’s impossible to provide a definitive answer. If it wasn’t load-bearing, it wouldn’t be so robustly constructed.
Consider hiring a structural engineer, as many have recommended. This is advice that may not be easily found online.
You might want to consider using an I beam instead.
What’s the reason for wanting to take it out?
How about swapping out the header with a shorter piece of steel to increase the doorway height?
A header is specifically designed to bear weight across the opening. It should either remain in place or be replaced with something that can bear weight if it’s a load-bearing wall.
No, if there is a header present, it serves a specific purpose. The header is responsible for supporting the weight above and distributing it to the sides towards the cripple studs (marked ‘x’ studs).
Hey, I totally understand where you’re coming from and you’re absolutely right most of the time. But, you also mentioned that no one in history has ever placed a header over a non load-bearing wall. I’m not trying to argue, but as someone who remodels for a living, I can tell you that I’ve encountered non load-bearing closets and bedroom doors with headers. In my area, many people construct their own homes with or without inspections and permits, but I highly doubt any inspector would fail an inspection due to overbuilding.
Hey , I work as a carpenter and I always put headers on each door and window, but using a double 2×12 might be a bit excessive.
Hold up. Unless you have experience with making structural changes to the house and can calculate weight distribution, it’s best not to make any more changes. Consider hiring a structural engineer to come out and give their professional opinion on what can be done.
I absolutely adore this group, they never fail to make me laugh. It also gives me peace of mind knowing that my career as a carpenter is secure.
Codes, licenses, and standard building practices exist for a reason. If you’re not well-versed in them, it’s best to hire a professional.
This message is directed at those confidently offering advice that could result in a serious structural failure. If you’re unsure, it’s better not to steer others in the wrong direction
The issue is that they firmly believe they’re correct, so your feedback doesn’t resonate with them.
Hey , how crucial is this part of the structure? Or is it just meant to outline a doorway? They’re thinking about taking it out to create a more open hallway.
Hey, this is really crucial information. The header is key to spreading the weight evenly across the door opening. Whenever there isn’t a stud running from top plate to bottom plate with weight above it, a header is necessary to distribute the weight. If it’s a non load-bearing scenario with a door opening, the top should be framed down with jack/cripple studs and not 2x12s. Check out the sketch attached to see the framing difference between load-bearing and non load-bearing openings.
I appreciate the help, thanks a bunch! So if it’s a non load-bearing doorway, just a 2×4 above will do the trick.
Hey, I just wanted to pop in and make sure nobody on the internet was giving bad advice about destroying their house.
Looks like the wall stops at the corner. How much weight is the header supporting by stopping at the doorframe? Would the ceiling come down if we took out the 2ft header?
I was curious because we recently renovated our kitchen and took down a wall with a doorway that had a header similar to this description. Surprisingly, nothing negative occurred as our house is constructed with trusses and the wall was not providing any structural support.
If you’re looking to connect the upstairs and downstairs, then it’s all good
What lies above this framework? You’ve already taken out one wall.
Before proceeding, determine if the wall supports weight. If it does, then yes, a beam is necessary. Another possibility is to integrate it into the ceiling. It’s difficult to tell from these pictures if it’s load-bearing, but I’d lean towards it being so.
If the wall is supporting weight, definitely do not remove it, unless you relocate the beam into the flooring. Cut the floor beams, add the beam, attach hangers for the joists.
Do you think anyone should point out that the stairs are connected to the wall and there are 2x4s at the top corners of the stringer?
You know, we should also think about the risk of falling with that 10-foot drop from the hole in the wall.
Yeah, the header definitely has a job to do. It’s responsible for supporting the roof.
Are you planning to run something through that area? Is that why you’re inquiring about removing it? 2×12’s may be a bit excessive there, but from what I understand, they help create a door height opening when placed under those double plates at the top. So, it’s not really necessary to do the extra framing when they are constructing. I have double 2x6s as headers on the load-bearing wall as wide as 6 ft. You might be able to do that and then use two by fours to create a small space for running wire or pipes if that’s what you’re trying to accomplish.
Sorry, but it’s not recommended to make changes without a structural engineer. That double header is in place for a specific purpose.
Hey there, if you’re unsure, it’s best to stop and not proceed. It’s important to consult with an engineer and have a stamped drawing that follows the building codes.
Hey, did you already take down the other wall?
To do this, you need to construct false walls on both sides, extending down to the basement. After that, you can remove the header, cut the drywall, trim the joists, insert a new header (same size, ensure it’s long enough to rest on the same jack stud), attach joist hangers, and you’re done
However, keep in mind there might be electrical wiring up there, so you’ll have to disconnect all wiring and either reroute it or create holes through the new beam
Essentially, you’ll need to dismantle most of your ceiling
A lot of folks are saying “no, that’s a load bearing header”. Seems like most of these comments are from folks who haven’t been part of a framing crew
I’ve been in the business of building new homes and fixing up old ones for more than twenty years. I can say for sure, not every solid header is load bearing
Sometimes we just put in a 2×10 or 12 or 8 solid header to make sure the tops of the doors align perfectly with the windows
Yes, it costs more in materials, BUT, constructing a 2×4 header takes four times longer
The only surefire way to know is to cut into the ceiling. If the joists run across, then it’s load bearing. Also, check if there is anything stacked on top. Headers can also provide support for your ridge
It seems like it’s not load-bearing because there’s only one jack stud on each side.
Bill, anything taller than 4 feet should have two of them on each side. That’s most likely okay.
Hey Jason, that section might not be load-bearing, but it does play a role in the wall’s stability, especially since they already cut out half of it. Without knowing what’s above, it’s hard to give concrete advice.
Did you know that it actually takes four times as long to build a 2×4 header?
Yeah, that’s true. To size up a double 2×10, you’ll need to make two cuts, put them together, and add a bottom 2×4 if necessary. When it comes to installing a 2×4 header, you have to cut and install each cripple (usually 3, but maybe 4 in some cases) for a standard opening. It can be a bit tricky to hold them in place and nail them down, especially if you’re building your walls while laying them down. Sometimes, one or two might break, and you’ll have to start over by pulling the nails out and cutting another one.
What do you mean?
Taking out the header, then what?
I advise against doing it
The appearance of the door framing in pictures is not important. What really matters is what is above the ceiling. Check if there is an attic or cut a hole in the ceiling to inspect. If the ceiling joists run across the top plate in the center of the house, it is load bearing which is why the door frame has a header.
Actually, you should consider supporting the span
It’s hard to determine if it’s load bearing or not. The answer lies above the ceiling. If there are joists on top, then it might be load bearing, which means you shouldn’t remove it.
You need to check if the joists are resting on that header, and if they are, you’ll need a header that’s flush or above
You could do it, but there’s a risk of your roof collapsing.
Quick question – are your stair stringers connected to the wall you just removed? It’s not exactly what you were asking about, but it’s still something to consider. When it comes to the header, they’re usually not just there for decoration. Have you thought about recessing a beam into the attic space with joist hangers? If that’s not an option, then you probably do need that header. Without actually seeing what’s above, none of us can say for sure.
You know, engineers aren’t as expensive as you might think. Having your house collapse due to negligence, ignorance, or stupidity – now that’s costly! Those 2×12 headers are usually there for a good reason, and they can be replaced with something like lvl or steel if needed. It might involve temporary walls and a lot of work, but regardless, you’ll need an engineer to approve that plan.
Hey, those are actually holding up your headers, also known as support beams.
If you swap out that bulky header for a slimmer steel I beam, you’ll maintain the strength while eliminating some of that cramped low ceiling feeling.